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What would be the right name?
http://www-.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=42935		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  nkforster [ Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:02 am ]
Post subject:  What would be the right name?
Folks, I'm a bit stumped over this one. For a while now I've been making "cylinder top" guitars, based on the old Howe Orme design. But the tops are a bit more complex than a plain old cylinder. On the outside, they're flat, and in the middle they're curved. On top of all this the central cylinder section is tapered, the radius is larger at the tail end that the neck.

Those of you with a mathematical or engineering background - do any of you know what this type of shape might be called?

Here's an image of the tail.

Image
Author:  CraigG [ Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What would be the right name?
How about edge flared conical?
Author:  Clay S. [ Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What would be the right name?
The instruments I build with what I call "cylindrical tops" actually use more of a spline curve, but they don't have the recurve on the edges that your's is showing. "Cylinder top" probably came about because it was easy to say once people knew what you were talking about. Easier than say... variably recurved spline cross sectioned top....
Author:  Trevor Gore [ Mon Mar 10, 2014 8:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What would be the right name?
Hey Nigel, we wouldn't want you getting all mathematical on us! :D .

How about The Manta Ray top?

(Otherwise something like a compound tapered reverse hyperbolic paraboloid)
Author:  nkforster [ Mon Mar 10, 2014 8:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What would be the right name?
Trevor Gore wrote:
Hey Nigel, we wouldn't want you getting all mathematical on us! :D .

How about The Manta Ray top?

(Otherwise something like a compound tapered reverse hyperbolic paraboloid)



Ha! Yes Trevor, you've had a terrible influence on me this last year. I've invested in an abacus.

One chap I talked to used the term "faircurve" which I believe is a boat building term for one shape blending smoothly into another. That seems ok, but not specific enough. "Compound tapered reverse hyperbolic parabaloid" it is then!
Author:  Colin North [ Mon Mar 10, 2014 8:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What would be the right name?
I always find your builds have an nice aesthetic touch to them Nigel.
You should post more pictures.
May I ask, do you find an advantage of some kind in a build like this, over domed tops and backs?
Author:  Mark Chinworth [ Mon Mar 10, 2014 8:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What would be the right name?
Normal probability distribution top.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Author:  Dave Stewart [ Mon Mar 10, 2014 9:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What would be the right name?
Looks like a cycloid.
http://www.cgl.uwaterloo.ca/~smann/ccycloid/
Author:  nkforster [ Mon Mar 10, 2014 9:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What would be the right name?
Colin North wrote:
I always find your builds have an nice aesthetic touch to them Nigel.
You should post more pictures.
May I ask, do you find an advantage of some kind in a build like this, over domed tops and backs?



That's nice to know. Yes, I think it's a great way to build. Very logical. I'm in the process of putting a new ebook together about the design, that's when it occurred to me that "cylinder top" doesn't really cover it.

This is one of the first ones I made:

http://youtu.be/YN16lL5lDE4
Author:  timoM [ Mon Mar 10, 2014 9:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What would be the right name?
I like manta ray, it is descriptive of the shape. Beautiful shape it is too. T
Author:  jfmckenna [ Mon Mar 10, 2014 9:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What would be the right name?
That's cool. I've never seen anything like that. I vote for manta ray!
Author:  mkellyvrod [ Mon Mar 10, 2014 9:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What would be the right name?
Being from Tampa, I like the manta ray name (Rays is the name of our baseball team), but I think Dave is right. After downloading the file that Dave pointed to, I agree, it looks like a cycloid. Nigel, enjoyed your utube video, and like the shape of your top; it's very pleasing to the eye as well as to the ear.
Author:  whiskywill [ Mon Mar 10, 2014 10:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What would be the right name?
A lump? ;)
Author:  DennisK [ Mon Mar 10, 2014 10:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What would be the right name?
My first thought was "recurved lateral arch top", but since the method of construction is so different than a carved arch top, which is probably what most people would think of when hearing that, maybe just "lateral recurve top"? Unless it sounds more like a carved arch top than a flat top, and then maybe the association would be a good thing.

Mark Chinworth wrote:
Normal probability distribution top.

:lol: Bell curve did come to mind. But then you get ambiguity with the church bell type shape, being music related...

Certainly is a cool shape :)
Author:  arie [ Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What would be the right name?
call it the "Forster Curve", take out a patent, and the money will roll right in. [:Y:]
Author:  Michiyuki Kubo [ Mon Mar 10, 2014 12:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What would be the right name?
Interesting, I concur with Manta Ray.
Author:  dzsmith [ Mon Mar 10, 2014 12:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What would be the right name?
Sloped serpentine?
Author:  Pat Foster [ Mon Mar 10, 2014 12:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What would be the right name?
Stealth Bomber? Or to be more specific, SR-71.

Pat
Author:  JasonM [ Mon Mar 10, 2014 3:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What would be the right name?
Puckered butt?
Author:  Nate Swanger [ Mon Mar 10, 2014 3:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What would be the right name?
Think the term you are looking for is parabolic.

If it tappers back down in the middle (saddle like shape) you can go with hyperbolic paraboloid! which face it is just plain nerd cool.

Nate
Author:  meddlingfool [ Mon Mar 10, 2014 4:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What would be the right name?
Complicated?
Author:  Alex Kleon [ Mon Mar 10, 2014 4:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What would be the right name?
Compound-round?

Alex
Author:  dzsmith [ Mon Mar 10, 2014 5:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What would be the right name?
You know, like the carve on a LP top.
Author:  RustySP [ Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What would be the right name?
Well, it kind of looks like Robin Hood's bow to me and being that Nigel is from England maybe he can call it that or a Sherwood Curve or sumthin like that?
Author:  cphanna [ Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What would be the right name?
Nigel,
Whatever you choose to call it, your detail shot shows beautiful craftsmanship as far as I can see, and I salute you on the accomplishment. You've stated that you've built a few of these "cylindrical" tops and it appears to me that you have all of the geometry mastered. Now...as to a name..... Hmmmmm..... I can't help you in a serious way that respects your question. I am not a mathematician. When I'm stuck in a situation like this and someone asks me what I call such a thing, I say: "Phyllis", because I can't think of a better answer.
Having admitted that to my own embarrassment, I will add that I think "Manta Ray" is perfect. Repeat it and post the results often enough, and pretty soon other people who emulate the shape will be referring to it as the "manta ray".
Soon after, I expect a fair number of people will be trying to make one similar to it.
Patrick
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